The Interview
Judy H. Wright
Missoula, Montana
Volume 17, Number 4 (1993)
The interview I remember most vividly was not one about a Church calling but one for an account executive position with a prestigious communications company. I walked into the building with a very impressive resume, numerous letters of recommendation, and full confidence that the position was mine, if I wanted it. As I sat in the foyer in my expensive suit with my leather briefcase at my feet, I realized that I was a picture of self-assurance to the others who were either waiting or working nearby.
So, when the Vice President of Sales and another executive walked toward me, it was easy to return their smile; however, when the extended hand was accompanied by a “Sister Wright, how are you today? Come on into my office, and let’s visit a bit,” in a loud booming voice, I knew that my credibility was sinking fast.
When I realized that the one who would be holding my temporal future in his hands was the first counselor in our bishopric, I almost didn’t apply for the position. But we needed the money and security this company could provide and, quit frankly, I could do the job with my hands tied behind my back. I loved working and was very good at it.
He sat behind his desk holding a pencil in one hand and drumming it on the fingers of his other hand, while he leaned back in his chair and asked own my “little” family was doing. He inquired about the different children by name and mentioned the status of a ward member who was ill.
He then brought his chair upright, rubbed his hands together, and said, “Well, let’s get on to the reason you are here today.” Quite frankly, I was having trouble remembering. Was it because once again I had taught the lesson without using the material included in the manual? Was it because once again my daughter had skipped Young Women’s, preferring sitting in the cold car rather than enduring one more endless hour of handouts and platitudes that sounded so ideal but had very little in common with her real life? She excelled in sports and math but had no interest in learning to make decorative dolls out of rag mops.
My experience in Church interview had taught me that when you are on the other side of the desk from a white shirt, you automatically become humble and answer honestly any question you are asked, no matter how personal. My experience in job interviews is that you share information that will prove your value to the corporation by being confident as well as competent.
I finally recognized that I was giving my power away on a silver platter and that I needed to regain control of the “job interview.” As I began to enumerate the various accomplishments I had made, he just gave me a soft smile. He didn’t say anything, but in my vulnerable state right then, my mind hear what I thought he was probably thinking. “Well, no wonder you older daughter is no longer active in the Church; you didn’t have time to mother her.”
As I began to flounder, I murmured something about how important flexible time is to women. He said, “Oh yes, that is what I would insist on for my wife, if she ever had to work. But it certainly is not something that we encourage or allow for our employees.” He went on to discuss quotas and bottom lines and the big picture as if I were a novice in the business world. I was so annoyed at myself for bringing flexible time up because, as in every other job, I simply organized my day so that all the quotas were met and then took whatever time I needed. I mean, men play golf or shoot the bull on a regular basis during work hours; women just use the same amount of time to run kids to the dentists or pick up Scout uniforms.
At this point in the interview, I realized that even if I should get the position after the non-professional job of selling myself I had just done, I would not be happy here. He had been in the Corporate Good Ol’ Boy Club for a long time and wasn’t likely to change his methods or double standard of expectations. One or the other of us would have a hard time making a division of Church and state. His patronizing attitude would continually annoy me, and it would not be very long before we would be in head-to-head combat. If my stomach were tied in knots now, I knew that Rolaids would be a daily companion in this workplace.
When we met in the hall on Sunday, he pulled me to the side to let me know that I was a top contender but that they were still checking reference. It felt wonderful to be able to tell him I had been offered a job with another firm and that I was going to take it. I think we were both relieved.
What an absolutely wonderful surprise to see a Google alert from the Exponent. That was an essay I had written many years ago in another life time.
I now work full time from my home office and travel internationally speaking about family and end-of-life issues.
However, no one calls me Sister Wright, because I no longer attend the LDS church.
My relationship with God is strong and we visit often. My spirituality has increased so much since I left the Saints.
Thank you for refreshing my memory. I had forgotten the incident and the patronizing attitude of that particular man.
Your magazine was a bright light for me for many years. It helped so much to know there were other women out there using their brains.
Judy H. Wright
http://www.ArtichokePress.com
whoa…that’s an interview nightmare. Yikes.
Cool that Judy Wright found her essay up on the net and stopped by.
Judy, I’m so glad you found this! I think this is such an interesting piece because of the collision of Church life and work life (and the temptation of this guy to mix the two).
Thanks for giving us an update, and thank you for this story!
Here’s the bit that blew my minds:
“Oh yes, that is what I would insist on for my wife, if she ever had to work. But it certainly is not something that we encourage or allow for our employees.”
What a classic statement of the disconnect between treating employees humanely (as one would treat one’s own spouse) and the bottom line! Women can be guilty of this, too, but fortunately it seems absent in the university where I work now. Between being nonprofit and being woman-founded and largely woman-led, I find it a very friendly work environment.
I can only say that this piece left me deflated and sad. I have a friend going through a similar divorce situation and I pray that whoever she speaks to is more loving and understand than this priesthood holder. I am curious to know what has happened in Laura Hamblin’s life since.
This piece makes me so incredibly sad and infuriated. It underscores the vast ecclesiastical power that a stake president has, in our lay leadership, to make or break the spirit of the people under his charge. President Clark is inflexible and self-righteous, little caring how his apathy wounds Laura Hamblin. I think that those who misuse or neglect their ecclesiastical authority will be called to repent at a time when they would wish mountains to cover their souls. Is it vengeful to say that I even wish it?
What would I say to Laura? Only that I hope she can do what my dear friends have had to do … do all you can, and if that doesn’t work, be patient enough for it to pass. It would be a great shame to let the sin of the husband, or the apathy of the interviewer to occlude her path.
I’ve asked these questions, I’ve prayed these prayers, I’ve said no when I should have said yes. My recommend is in little pieces too.
That’s an awful story. It breaks my heart.
This is from 1984?! What happened to Linda?
I am very conflicted over having an older male “judge” if I’m worthy or not to enter the temple. I recently had a disheartening experience when going in to get my Stake President to sign my rec. Instead of asking me the official questions, he started off by asking me to read from the Strength of Youth pamphlet about modesty of dress. I was so confused… I’m a 29 year-old married woman. But, I complied. He then asked me to bear my testimony. I tried…but I couldn’t. I stammered. I was honest, and told him I’m working on things. He said he couldn’t sign my recommend because he had felt like something was wrong, and “realized” it was my testimony. He said if I read my scriptures for 1/2 an hour everyday, then perhaps in the next couple months we could meet again and he would sign it. I asked why he had me read outloud from the pamplet- and he admitted that he thought I was tucking my garments. (I was wearing a a shade shirt- which is specifically designed to cover them). The whole incident left me so upset…and I nearly did decide to rip up my recommend.
Instead, once our Bishop found out about what had happened, he was very upset. especially because we had been working together, and we both had felt good about my going to the temple. A few days later I got a call saying that the Stake Pres would be at our ward to sign my rec. the following Sunday. We met…he apologized for the misunderstanding and said my Bishop assured him was ‘worthy’ and he signed it…now I can go…
But now I’m torn…I still feel ‘bitter’ about what happened. The good part is that my husband and I are closer after going through it- because he was able to see for the first time, what it’s like for a female. I’m trying to realize that this man is just human, and I don’t want to allow this incident to distract me from my own path… but I do worry about other young women who go to these men of authority and leave feeling miserable. And I worry about having a daughter and sending her through these same types of interviews with men who do not know how to relate…
Kli, your story makes me so angry. Where was this guy getting off making your read out loud about modesty? And then asking you to bear your testimony out of the blue? Geez, stick to the script, leaders.
I know what you mean about wondering if you want your daughters (or your sons) to be asked invasive questions and jugdged by a man they barely know. One conclusion I’ve come to is that leaders generally don’t want to have a heart to heart with you during a rec interview. They just want easy answers with no equivocation. I will encourage my kids to think of the questions in ways which will enable them to give the easy answers. After all, it’s up to us to define what “sustain” means, or “believe” or “wear day and night” or “keep the law of chastity.” If my leaders’ definitions are different than mine, oh well.
I would have to have a lot of trust and a close relationship with a leader to pour my heart out to them about my fears and doubts. And if I did, I would want it to be reciprocal. I would want him to talk to me about some of his struggles. Then it becomes more like a real conversation, where both of us grow in understanding, than the one sided judging/advice thing that sometimes happens in these interviews. Ultimately, I just don’t like the idea of opening my most intimate self up to a stranger without the hope for reciprocity – it gives them a power over me that I’m uncomfortable with.
Ultimately, I just don’t like the idea of opening my most intimate self up to a stranger without the hope for reciprocity – it gives them a power over me that I’m uncomfortable with.
Yes! This is exactly how I feel. It’s different if you’re going to your bishop specifically for some counseling, but in a TR interview–especially with the SP, who most likely doesn’t know you at all–this beyond-the-standard-basics questioning seems very invasive.
Emily:
Thank you so much for posting this poignant piece of writing.
My recommend is still in my wallet by my health insurance card. It’s expired, but still there and not torn into pieces. For me it represents are part of me that’s still important, but is something that I chose not to renew–yet I’m sure if some man had misused his power to prevent me from holding a recommend, mine would be in pieces, too.
Oops, I forgot to note, Laura wrote this as a fiction piece–important piece of info! Sorry!
Examples like this story have led me to some ambivalence about the church. As I age (I’m now in my mid-thirties), the ambivalence grows more and more acute – because the leaders are now my peers.
For right or wrong, this is how I feel now: that I have a direct relationship with Jesus Christ, and that this is all that matters in my spiritual life. From this relationship flows my beliefs in temples, priesthood, prophets, and the Book of Mormon. But if there is anything that interferes with these secondary beliefs (like the example in this post), then I will fall back on my relationship with the Savior.
Sometimes I think that makes me more a candidate for the born-again mega church down the road?
Why do I go to the LDS church? Why do I persevere through things that cause me anxiety, sadness, loneliness or anguish? Because of this:
“I recall a conversation I had with Elder Bednar one day when he served as president of BYU–Idaho. As a member of the Fifth Quorum of the Seventy, he had been on a stake conference assignment the weekend before. He commented to me that if he were to be assigned one, and only one, point of doctrine to talk about for the remainder of his life, he would want it to be the enabling power of the Atonement.”
(Betty Oldham, http://www.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2008_07_01_Oldham.htm)
That’s all that matters to me. Jesus Christ and the enabling power of His atonement. Yes, the culture and the people of the church can hurt me sometimes, usually inadvertently, I believe. But the Savior and His atonement are all that matter.
Caroline- Thanks for your reply. I’m still getting to the point where I can feel as you wrote “then if my leader’s definitions are different than mine,’Oh,Well’.”
It’s SUCH a breath of fresh air to get onto this site a read articles about people who feel the same way I do about things. It makes me feel like I really can stay LDS and be true to my own conscience…
I too feel like this. I am wondering if He doesn’t answer my prayers or maybe he counts on people to be inspired to help others and everyone around me can’t be inspired.
I too would like to know how and what she is doing now.
Another case of sympathy instead of empathy. We should never feel as if we understand what someone is going through unless we have gone through the same exact thing.
ack! I wish it had FICTION big across the top, then I wouldn’t have been bummed out unnecessarily!
Oh, heartbreak. I know someone who had a similar experience with her bishop during her initial separation from her now-ex-husband, a chronically depressed and angry emotional abuser who refused treatment over many years. I think it’s been 18mos-2 years ago since her recommend was taken. This month a new bishop was called in her ward. She’s hoping for the best.
It might be fiction, but it’s pretty real. Even 24 years later.