Guest Post: Ashli Carnicelli is an author, https://exponentii.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/IMG_5173-scaled-1.jpg and classically trained singer. Ashli’s heartfelt narrative invites readers to embark on a soul-enriching experience through her works such as Cherish: The Joy of Our Mother in Heaven and her monthly newsletter sharing her testimony of Christ “The Pearls”. She recently was featured in LDS Living Magazine for her personal life experiences and reflections on God’s love. Ashli holds her Bachelor of Music Degree in Vocal Performance from The Boston Conservatory, and she and her husband Tony are the parents of four daughters.
The Spirit Can Give Us Eyes to See Our Lives Through the Lord’s Perspective
When I joined the church at age 35 in 2017, my husband was completing his 5 year Cardiology Fellowship at Duke University. I supported our family financially through my work for the 7 previous years of his medical school training and residency. During his Fellowship, I was working for a plastic surgeon in Raleigh as a Medical Esthetician. This career, while I enjoyed it, was not what I had aspired to before we were married.
I spent every moment of my childhood from age 5 into my early twenties studying, performing and preparing to be an Opera Singer. Everything in my life revolved around my art, and I was eager and ambitious. My husband and I met studying music- he at Berklee College of Music and me at The Boston Conservatory. After graduation when we decided to marry, it was also time for me to start applying to Masters programs for Opera Performance. My husband and I first met with my agent in Manhattan. He looked across the table from my husband and told him, “Ashli needs to give her career a solid 10 years and I will castrate you if you get her pregnant before that time.” I was 22 and absolutely appalled by his declaration over our lunch in SOHO. Surely I could have a family when we wanted to?! My husband and I rode the fast train back to Boston and discussed what I should do next.
I hired a new voice teacher, one who works with opera stars all over the world. She looked up at me from the piano as I started my vocal exercises in her home. “Are you planning on getting married and starting a family?” she asked. “Yes!” I gleefully exclaimed, starry eyed in love with my husband, my ring sparkling on my finger. “There’s a role I think you would be perfect for but it’s out in Colorado. Would he be okay with you being away for 9 months out of the year to be a part of a Company?” I hadn’t considered this. I honestly hadn’t even considered what my life would actually LOOK like as a performer- the implications on my relationships, my lifestyle, etc. My soul only knew the music; the stage- what I had worked so hard to achieve was almost in my grasp. “Oh- I don’t know.” I replied, uncertain. She advised, “This career is very hard for families. It’s very hard to have children with this lifestyle. It’s very hard on marriages. This is something you really should think about. If you want to truly make it you and your partner have to be willing to do what it takes.” And what did it take? Sacrificing our marriage? Putting off having children at all? I knew that as a woman I would at times need to choose to prioritize between work and marriage and family but was this really how it was?!
I called up another teacher I knew- this one not for opera –she had a really great career as a solo artist as well as a backup singer for Aretha Franklin, Reba McEntire, Amy Grant, Garth Brooks and Dolly Parton to name a few. I planned a private lesson with her. I trusted her advice because she had a steady career in the music industry and had many successful friends. “Donna, “ I started, my forearms resting on the upright piano across from her, “I’m getting advice and it is so negative. I am being told I can’t have this career AND have a husband and a family.” She stood up from the piano bench so that she was eye level with me. “Ashli, I am POSITIVE that they are right. I am telling you this right now. Look ahead at your life 10 years in the future. You are a huge success- you are famous- you have a cabinet full of Grammys and Tonys…if your house is full of accolades and success but no family, no one to love and be loved by… that’s not going to keep you warm at night.”
“But is that REALLY what it takes? To be successful in this industry?” I asked. “It’s the truth,” she started, “Some give all and at the end of the road they aren’t even successful. In fact that is true for most,” She sighed. I was crushed. I left my lesson with her with a hug and I was grateful to her for being honest with me.
I discussed it with my husband. We prayed, we studied scriptures and we counseled together (we were Catholic then). We both decided that at the end of our lives when we looked back what we wanted most was each other, our family, and a life full of service to humanity. While we both knew that music and the arts absolutely are a service to humanity, we were both unwilling to pay the cost required to go all in to make it our full time careers. Could it have worked out? Does it for some? Absolutely! However, in hindsight I believe that the Lord had a different path for me, for us, and for our children in mind. We sought the Lord for our purpose, both individually and as a family. My answer was to become a nurse and work with infants in the NICU. My husband’s answer was to become a physician.
As I searched and prayed I had to ask myself- Do I put off having a family and possibly strain my marriage for my dream that I spent almost my entire life preparing for? OR- do I choose my husband and our family first instead of choosing myself and my dream? Do I choose a different career path entirely? Do I choose to do what it takes for my husband and I both to build the life the Lord is asking us to? I chose my husband and our future children. I chose the path the Lord called me to, I have nicknamed, “The humble path”. I got to work right away to do all that would be required to support him and us and our future children during his long training which would include 5 years of fulfilling pre-med coursework requirements post- bac, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of Residency and 5 years of Fellowship. I started first by choosing a shorter education pathway that would sustain us financially through his training. I enrolled in school for Massage Therapy and completed my certification in 13 months. I worked full time for 3 years before my husband was accepted to medical school, this experience making me employable no matter where we lived. I taught massage therapy and worked at a resort spa before our first daughter was born during my husband’s second year of medical school. As we moved from state to state for the different parts of his training, I was able to continue my education and attended a program to become a Licensed Aesthetician and I also became a Registered Yoga Teacher.- both fields supporting us financially and both fields I fully enjoyed. I continued to perform a few times per year in recitals and in a few choirs, but my singing was no longer the center of my life. My husband and my family were. After my baptism, the Lord became the center of my life after my husband and children.
13 years later after making this choice, when I joined the Church and received my Patriarchal Blessing, I received confirmation that I absolutely made the right choice. My blessing spoke of going from being a “woman of the world” to a “woman of Christ” and that part of this process would either occur or not based a few factors- one of which would be the difficult decisions that I would need to make as I prayerfully sought the Lord’s will and had the courage to obey His answers. 2005 was one of those moments of difficult decision that I sought the Lord’s will for and I did listen.
I knew what mattered most to me- in a world of “good, better, best” I felt very guided by the Lord that building my life around my family would be the best thing for me and that following His guidance would bring me true joy. After learning the gospel and how families are so central to Heavenly Father’s plan for us, there can be no doubt in my mind that the Lord was guiding and directing my path, even through the grief of losing my dream and, at the time, my identity. Little did I know then that I would form a new identity and that it would be in Christ. Both my husband and myself have made large sacrifices for the greater good of what the Lord has asked us to do. I just finished my pre-nursing certificate and get to finish my BSN now that my husband’s 19 years of training is over, just like I was called to do.
This path has not been easy. It has been extremely humbling at times. There were days of tears and grief over giving up my dream. There were days I questioned if I made the right decision, as it felt risky to build my life around others instead of on myself. As someone who tended to be more prideful and fiercely independent it took a lot of humbling for me to work with my husband and build our life together. Who was I without my music? Was I giving it all up for a guy? Was I making the right investment? Was it okay that we were now putting all of our eggs into his career basket instead of mine? Was I falling into one the stereotypes I so deeply resented- one of the “woman behind the man”? All of these questions arose from my being “in the world”. Now, seeing the life we’ve built together through the gospel lens I know that not only has this pathway pointed me towards becoming a “woman of Christ” but it has also shown me I started living my temple covenants before I even made them.
I believe that if we turn our will over to His, we obtain a life that is sweeter than we could have crafted for ourselves. I believe that if we humbly ask, He will give us eyes to see the long view. The choices that I have made have eternal consequences. Fame, accolades and awards will one day be completely forgotten, much like when Jesus spoke of setting our hearts upon treasures that thieves will steal and rust doth corrupt. My family- my husband and our four daughters- they are my treasures. Their knowing the Savior from my nurture will last through the eternities! The experience of honoring my temple covenants by sacrificing my time, talents and means to build God’s kingdom on the earth in the form of being a supportive wife and mother has brought me so much joy, even on the hard days. I love my Savior, and He loves me. I can’t describe the joy that comes from being obedient and letting Him prevail, even if the outside world might say that what I’m doing isn’t as exciting or glamorous, or fulfills a desire or dream for myself.
The Lord has not forgotten my love of music. He has given me the opportunity to perform very often. I’ve been called to several callings in music within my ward, and have been able to continue performing because of my Church membership. I even get to be a part of an album with the Divine Music Project, singing alongside some incredibly talented artists. Our oldest daughter, who is 11, asked me to come to her Career Day at school. “Oh! Which career?” I asked her. Her answer stunned me- “Opera Singer”. I thoroughly enjoyed sharing my love of music with the children, realizing that my music would always be a part of me.
Over the last two decades I have thought of the Savior’s words in Matthew 16:25 often; “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.” I will never regret turning my life over to the Savior and letting Him prevail, and I’m grateful that He has given me eyes to see the value of living a life in covenant relationship with Jesus Christ and letting Him guide my path.
POSTSCRIPT FROM BLOGGER ABBY MAXWELL HANSEN:
I asked Ashli to submit this guest post to share another perspective of motherhood and careers, to go along with the blog I wrote yesterday: I Might’ve Been a Rocket Scientist (Like My Dad), But I Was a Girl – Exponent II. I would just like to brag on Ashli and share a picture I took of her soon to be released new book this past weekend! Contact Writ & Vision in Provo, Utah to pre-order your copy today! Art And Rare Books | Writ And Vision | Provo
18 Responses
Thank you for the beautiful post!
Thinking about this post in combination with yesterday’s post:
I read yesterday’s post and, while my heart went out to Abby and I really felt for her, I didn’t have the same experience. Sure, I made some sacrifices in my career for my family, and there was a point in my late twenties where I was angry with the patriarchal system we live in because of where my career was at – realizing it would have been better had I not been encouraged to have babies so young. But, like Ashli, I’ve always worked, so I’ve never missed out so fundamentally like Abby described. I’m sure I would have done things a little differently had I not grown up in a community where I was the oldest of my friends to get married when I got married at 23, but thankfully I never completely gave up on a career and now, at age 37, I’m really happy in my career.
From my math after reading Abby’s post, I think I’m about 6 or 7 years younger than Abby, which means I was a young teenager when president hinckley was telling the youth to get as much education as we possibly could. I wonder if that messaging saved me a little bit from the benson messaging that shaped Abby’s youth. Ashli wasn’t in the church as a youth so similarly didn’t have the benson messaging ruling her early decisions. My heart really breaks for all the little girls (now women) who felt they needed to sacrifice everything for their family.
Thinking about both of these posts as a mom of 3 little girls, I want to protect them! I want to make sure they know they can have a career, while also recognizing that having babies is a lot and their careers might end up looking a little different than they would otherwise. My kids aren’t aspiring musicians anyway, but like me, they may still have to make some sacrifices and decide what’s worth it
Hey, this is Abby from yesterday’s blog post! 🙂 I totally agree, and I think the messaging we received can have huge variations depending on what year you were born.
I look back on those talks given by the prophet when I was six years old and realize a lot of working women quit their jobs to follow his counsel and became full time mothers afterwards. Six years later I became a 12-year-old Beehive. All of those women who had sacrificed their careers and incomes were the ones teaching me how to be a good woman. If I’d just done that, I am positive I’d be teaching the girls in my classes how incredibly important and fulfilling stay at home motherhood is because I’d probably be trying to convince myself as well.
Fast forward a few more years, and maybe the intense wave of ETB’s words was dying back down, but I was already a freshman in college at that point and had just received six years of that hardcore messaging in my Young Women’s classes.
Ashli being a convert means she didn’t get any of that church messaging, and it almost feels to me like she did more of what an LDS man might do – give up his dream career to have one that’s more family friendly instead (but not give up a career completely). (Hi Ashli! :))
Sometimes I think different generations of women in the church talk over each other and can’t understand why another one is so insistent that they had an experience when it felt nothing like their own. If anyone out there reading this wants to submit a guest post with their own experiences with a career and motherhood within the church, please do!
Good point about how often we assume that we had the same experience as others. Honestly, since posting that this morning, I’ve been thinking about how a lot of the girls I grew up with did become SAHMs and I bet a lot of them did feel pressured into it. I’m sure my outlook wasn’t just shaped by hinckley’s talk but also my familial experiences (part member family with a mom who worked my whole childhood). I likely would have had a different outlook on life if I’d been in a different family
YES! You and I have the girl Mom thing in common- I want to guide and steer them and protect them but not hinder them either. My oldest has the singing and performing bug maybe even harder than I did! I want to keep it real while not discouraging her with the hopes that the industry has gotten better as Malinda described. During that time my opera role models were Maria Callas, Renee Fleming- powerful women with illustrious careers who ended up divorced/single. Thank you for sharing your beautiful insights!
I think that Abby from yesterday’s post and myself were born in the same year. Not that it matters per se.
A few months ago, I had a conversation with my mother about my faith transition, specifically how the “performance expectations” (and values priorities) as defined by gender have pushed me away from the church community. I as a female “preside” in the sense that I “make decisions” easily and thoughtfully. I have been “leading” my entire life because I can’t trust others to “get it right for me” and people follow me (so I coordinate with them and tell them what I think they should do and what I am going to do). I “provide” in the sense that I take executive functioning seriously (to locate and source all the things) and I am the breadwinner in our family.
I see myself as a sturdy survivor, who has to give herself “permission to feel” – not the “nurturer first who co-feels and co-regulates” the family that is the performance benchmark here.
I was stunned when her rebuttal was, “Are you mad that you have to work instead of stay at home with the kids? Did I teach you the wrong things so you are unhappy with working?”. Her question was valid because my husband is more nurturing by disposition and we decided someone needed to be home with the children. She stayed at home with all of us kids because I have a lot of siblings. It made sense at the time.
I was even more stunned when she classified me as a “good nurturer” because I am an active participant (a claim can be made about helicopter parenting and over-supporting) in raising my daughters.
I think the conclusion for me is that I don’t want my family structure to be “authorized by a hand-waving, afterthought death/disability clause”.
Not all of us giving up career still get blessed by getting to do what we love. My mother loved news paper work. She loved every aspect, from reporting, to proofreading. The smell of ink made her high because she loved it so much. There isn’t the same opportunity for that in the church and community as something like singing, so this post kind of doesn’t work for her. She totally had to work outside the home, and that was so frowned upon she was the outcast, evil woman in our ward as I was growing up. Myself, it doesn’t work for me either. My military husband’s career meant either I gave up any career, had really long (years at a time separations) or worked around his frequent moves, and time away from family when I was doing it all. I only got in short snatches of doing what I loved. My daughters, well, it doesn’t work for them either. And let’s not count the lesbian as suffering from male privilege and giving up too much for children. She never wanted children. But maybe my other daughter is finally learning that her career is just as important as her husband’s because after marriage #3 failing (she picks abusive jerks, what can I say) she only has that career. But like most women, she sacrificed too much for children and husbands. Because it was expected.
Call me cynical but for this starry eyed post to really work, a person needs talent, luck, and a good stable marriage. I mean, I don’t mean to criticize and I am happy it worked and she is totally happy. But it just doesn’t work for many. They end up alone and trying to support children on much less than the career they gave up, or giving up the career part of what they love for bits and pieces. Sorry, but I can’t even relate.
Am I sorry for the choices I made? No, because my husband and children are totally worth it, but if my husband had been killed or we got divorced, I would have been totally screwed. I took a huge gamble and gave up any real career and just because it worked for me doesn’t mean I would advise another woman to just have faith and give it all up for her man.
Why can’t we start expecting men to give up a little bit more for marriage and children?
Thanks for sharing your experience, Ashli! I am glad that you felt your Heavenly Parents guiding your choices, and I am so glad you are so happy and fulfilled! That is wonderful! I know this must have been a huge decision (and probably a decision you had to keep making).
I am sorry that you were given the advice you were given so early in your career. Not because you may have chosen a different path (you are happy with your path), but because I don’t believe it’s true and it’s harmful to the music industry as a whole. I have learned from amazing Opera Moms like Kathryn Lewek, Erin Morley, Madison Leonard, and Nina Yoshida Nelsen about how it is absolutely a sacrifice to have a family and sing, but it is also possible. I am sad that so many just tell women to avoid a family, if they have musical hopes and dreams. This prevents the opera industry from realizing that they need to make accommodations for working mothers. (Nina had a conversation with me where she shared a story about her child sleeping in a walk-in closet while she was away on a gig. You can find it on the What is Opera, Anyway? Podcast). This is especially frustrating when many male singers are not forced to make the same choice, especially not at such a young age (patriarchy… yay 🙃)
I love you sharing your story, because you emphasized the importance of keeping the Lord in the decision process. Interestingly, I also married after finishing my bachelor’s in vocal performance. I also spent months praying and studying. My (now-husband) boyfriend and I had originally planned to wait until after I finished my master’s to get married. We thought we had a plan, and then God had a different plan. Covid hit. I took a gap year, and we decided to get married. Then, my convenient, close master’s degree plans fell apart. We prayed and decided I would re-apply to different schools. (This literally happened a day after my husband proposed). Lots of praying. We decided to do long-distance while I finished my master’s degree. It was crazy and audacious and brave. And absolutely what God wanted for us. Even though I got a totally different answer from you, I believe we were both led by God.
I don’t know what the future will hold for my family, but I know if I trust God, my family will be ok.
Ooo also Malinda I just had a thought. The music industry (and the world) has changed a LOT in the last 20 years from when I received this advice. Women were allowed to have their own checking accounts just 9 years before I was born! I’m grateful that things continue to evolve- I hope that it isn’t true anymore and I hope and pray that the classical music world as well as the music industry as a whole is changing for the better so that women don’t have to choose between it and their family life unless they want to! 🩷🩷
Absolutely, things are getting better! It’s exciting to see. They still have some work to do, but I have hope as more and more singers and companies are doing the work to make it happen.
It may take a minute to get everyone on board, though.
For a fun story, several years ago, Rachel Willis-Sorenson, a wonderfully acclaimed opera singer and member of the church was singing in an opera and got a review that she had “no sex appeal.” She was pregnant with twins at the time. Her response: “I looked up that reviewer. The feeling is mutual!” 😂I’m glad that she was able to clap back without repercussions. That shows how much better things are getting!
HAHAHA that is amazing!!!! Love you sweet friend! ❤️❤️🫶🏻
Hi Anna! The author of this post here- I know EVERYTHING that you are saying- I hear you! Trust me- all of these thoughts went through my head as I made my choices- “What if I give it all up for this marriage and this family and he leaves me? Meets someone else during medical training/cheats on me, we divorce, has an accident, dies young, etc” Your observation for this starry eyes post (which is in fact, my life and not a post) to work you need a good stable marriage- you are absolutely correct. A great marriage counselor helped us a LOT in the beginning. It also helped that I didn’t give up a way to support myself/a career entirely. It’s ok if it doesn’t resonate with you. I am sending you and your daughters love all the same! ❤️❤️❤️🙏🏻
Thanks for your kind response to my less than positive comment. I was really kind of nervous writing what I did, because I am not sorry for my choices. Sure, sometimes I wish things could have been different and that the costs of motherhood were not so high, but I would still not do anything differently.
So, the other side of my story. I married young, not really because the church wanted me to, but because I wanted to marry him. I had other choices, in fact I knew if I was still single when my missionary got back, that I could have finished college before marriage, and not have that military spouse life, and it would have been a great marriage. But my choice was my husband from the first date when I had a spiritual confirmation that was pretty strong and totally not prayed for. And I had my children young, and turned out, if I had not married at 19 and had children right away, then medically I would not have been able to have children, and adoption when you move every other year just doesn’t work, so we would have been childless. And by the time that missionary got home and we married, I would not have been able to have children either. So, for me, doing everything “wrong” from a feminist standpoint was the best way of doing things, just for me. And I guess God knew that.
And I guess I could write my own post about “trust God and things may not work out perfectly, but they will work out for the best.” I mean, that is my life and I guess it is about as starry eyed as your story. But here’s the reason I would never give that advice either. And I am not saying at all you did that, because you just told your story, not really told others to do the same. It is just that I have seen too many people 100% sure they were following God’s prompting only to look back and see it wasn’t really from God, but what they thought the church/God wanted, or what they themselves really badly wanted. I can’t give anybody else advice on how to know if something is really from God. It is just too easy to be wrong. I mean, when I got told I should marry my husband, I was still very in love with the guy getting ready to leave on his mission, so it really wasn’t what I wanted, but that is not a way to judge that it is really from God, just because it isn’t what you want. So, I can’t promise that if I tell someone “follow the promptings,” that it will work out for the best.
And I can’t tell anybody else how to know that the guy they marry will never die on them, divorce them, or beat them. Heaven’s, I can’t even tell my daughter how to pick a guy who won’t hit her, or someone she won’t end up afraid of. So, I come back to the idea that I would tell a young woman the same thing you were told. You can’t really have your career, and marriage and children, because it is just too hard…unless your husband is a Mister Ruth Ginsburg.
Hi Malinda!!!! I love everything that you’ve said! I do believe it is possible for many to have both. In hindsight I know it would not have been possible for me and I’m glad I made the choice that I did. Amen!! If you trust God your family will absolutely be ok!! ❤️❤️🙏🏻🙏🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
Absolutely! I’m so glad that God knew your heart and what would be best for your family and that you were guided to that decision. Good for you for listening to the spirit! I wish you and your wonderful family all the best. ❤️💜
I wish that for you too my beautiful friend and I can’t wait to see what God is going to do with you in your life!! ❤️❤️🫶🏻
Why didn’t your husband give up his career so you could be an opera singer? He could have stayed home with the kids or become a nurse and worked an alternative schedule. It seems strange to me that you think your choices were guided by god, but you never consider that almost any other option could work too. Perhaps, if you had chosen differently, you would also think those choices were god approved. People the world over have children and they are happy about it or they are not. People the world over have careers AND children and they are also happy. Does god only smile upon the decision for a woman to give up her career to get married and have kids ? Perhaps god would also smile upon a man staying home to raise his children and giving up his career. Perhaps god smiles on us all and is grateful for whatever we do in this life. Perhaps god especially loves the ones who think for themselves and don’t swallow the hook – line and sinker.
My choices were guided by God. I considered every option and every angle- we both did. He absolutely could have stayed home and we could have switched roles but that was not the guidance that we received. I do think for myself. I have a happy life and a happy marriage so I’m not so sure what the hook line and sinker comment is about. God absolutely does smile on us all. I hope you have a blessed day and remember that even if you read an essay that tells about 1200 words of someone’s story that it isn’t the whole story- save the judgement or maybe just don’t comment at all.
D Cannon – just a reminder that our comment policy doesn’t allow insults (assuming that Ashli doesn’t think for herself).
“3. No mudslinging: Stating disagreement is fine — even strong disagreement, but no personal attacks or name calling. No personal insults.”
Ashli had already replied to your comment and agreed to keep it up, but just a reminder to be kinder in future comments or we will have to remove them. ❤️